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	<title>Comments on: Death Penalty Revisited</title>
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	<link>http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/archives/252</link>
	<description>"Grace must find expression in life, otherwise it is not grace."</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Pro-Life, Pro-Capital Punishment &#171; Of Bald Men and Bears</title>
		<link>http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/archives/252/comment-page-1#comment-6713</link>
		<dc:creator>Pro-Life, Pro-Capital Punishment &#171; Of Bald Men and Bears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/?p=252#comment-6713</guid>
		<description>[...] especially after a discussion that I had with a friend through comments on his blog (first post, second post). Today, the Daily Nebraskan published an editorial called &#8220;Pro-life philosophy applies to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] especially after a discussion that I had with a friend through comments on his blog (first post, second post). Today, the Daily Nebraskan published an editorial called &#8220;Pro-life philosophy applies to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Gerber</title>
		<link>http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/archives/252/comment-page-1#comment-6703</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Gerber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/?p=252#comment-6703</guid>
		<description>Well, I certainly appreciate that stance from an intellectual perspective.  I hope I didn't come across as being overly dogmatic about this issue, but I have just developed strong feelings about it as I have seen some Christians exclude it in the name of "love."  The more I hear that argument, the more it strikes me as a mistaken understanding of love; nevertheless, I could be wrong about all this, so I perhaps shouldn't take quite as strong a tone.

In any case, I do appreciate your willingness to discuss this issue with someone who takes such a different opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I certainly appreciate that stance from an intellectual perspective.  I hope I didn&#8217;t come across as being overly dogmatic about this issue, but I have just developed strong feelings about it as I have seen some Christians exclude it in the name of &#8220;love.&#8221;  The more I hear that argument, the more it strikes me as a mistaken understanding of love; nevertheless, I could be wrong about all this, so I perhaps shouldn&#8217;t take quite as strong a tone.</p>
<p>In any case, I do appreciate your willingness to discuss this issue with someone who takes such a different opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/archives/252/comment-page-1#comment-6697</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/?p=252#comment-6697</guid>
		<description>Well, I think that question points out the basic difference between us on this issue. For now, I'd have to say I'm undecided on it. There's a couple arguments I'm still sorting through to figure out my position on the morality of the issue. 

The main question I'm sorting through is whether or not there is provision for the method of protecting human dignity to change within the redemptive narrative of scripture. I don't know whether I buy that idea or not, I'm concerned partly b/c I think it's a thin argument left on its own and I'm also concerned that one might take this idea and fall into a form of chronological snobbery in which one thinks their era is better than previous ones, so we don't need capital punishment anymore. I feel like it's a weak argument right now but I want to have time to think through it before I totally disregard it.

I guess, practically-speaking, if I had to take a side right now I would take the first b/c ultimately my conscience is captive to the scriptures and as best I understand it, the statements made in Genesis 9 still apply today. I make that statement against every impulse I feel in my heart, but ultimately I have to go where the Scriptures lead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I think that question points out the basic difference between us on this issue. For now, I&#8217;d have to say I&#8217;m undecided on it. There&#8217;s a couple arguments I&#8217;m still sorting through to figure out my position on the morality of the issue. </p>
<p>The main question I&#8217;m sorting through is whether or not there is provision for the method of protecting human dignity to change within the redemptive narrative of scripture. I don&#8217;t know whether I buy that idea or not, I&#8217;m concerned partly b/c I think it&#8217;s a thin argument left on its own and I&#8217;m also concerned that one might take this idea and fall into a form of chronological snobbery in which one thinks their era is better than previous ones, so we don&#8217;t need capital punishment anymore. I feel like it&#8217;s a weak argument right now but I want to have time to think through it before I totally disregard it.</p>
<p>I guess, practically-speaking, if I had to take a side right now I would take the first b/c ultimately my conscience is captive to the scriptures and as best I understand it, the statements made in Genesis 9 still apply today. I make that statement against every impulse I feel in my heart, but ultimately I have to go where the Scriptures lead.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Gerber</title>
		<link>http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/archives/252/comment-page-1#comment-6696</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Gerber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/?p=252#comment-6696</guid>
		<description>Jake--
Good article, and I think that I see a little more clearly the precise issue that divides us on this.  I think that I can clearly illustrate it with the following question:

Which would be more moral: (1) a system where every murderer (where we were at least 90-95% certain of guilt) were executed; or (2) a system where no murderers were executed?

I would say (1), although, as Heath points out, this isn't and shouldn't be a comfortable position.  Still, I think that it is a &lt;i&gt;necessary&lt;/i&gt; position. (By the way, I learned a lot from Stephen Lawhead about the reality of situations that are not pleasant, but are nevertheless necessary.) I don't want to have to execute people any more than a parent would want to have to punish their child.  Still, there are some things that are worse than justice; namely, injustice.  A child may become spoiled if it is never punished, but a nation may stop valuing life if criminals who steal things get the same punishment as the criminals who steal life.

You make a good case in your article that there is vast injustice in how the death penalty is administered, but I don't think that the way to increase justice is to execute fewer people; rather, it is to execute more people.  I am not saying that we should just execute whomever (I am only in favor of capital punishment for murderers), but I would point out that the evidence you cited made the case that people were being let off the hook unfairly (i.e., where others were not let off the hook) rather than that the wrong people were being executed. (Obviously, that happens too, and that would be the part of criminal justice that I would personally work on reforming.)

That said, I would be interested in whether you would choose (1) or (2).  I think that would help to focus the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake&#8211;<br />
Good article, and I think that I see a little more clearly the precise issue that divides us on this.  I think that I can clearly illustrate it with the following question:</p>
<p>Which would be more moral: (1) a system where every murderer (where we were at least 90-95% certain of guilt) were executed; or (2) a system where no murderers were executed?</p>
<p>I would say (1), although, as Heath points out, this isn&#8217;t and shouldn&#8217;t be a comfortable position.  Still, I think that it is a <i>necessary</i> position. (By the way, I learned a lot from Stephen Lawhead about the reality of situations that are not pleasant, but are nevertheless necessary.) I don&#8217;t want to have to execute people any more than a parent would want to have to punish their child.  Still, there are some things that are worse than justice; namely, injustice.  A child may become spoiled if it is never punished, but a nation may stop valuing life if criminals who steal things get the same punishment as the criminals who steal life.</p>
<p>You make a good case in your article that there is vast injustice in how the death penalty is administered, but I don&#8217;t think that the way to increase justice is to execute fewer people; rather, it is to execute more people.  I am not saying that we should just execute whomever (I am only in favor of capital punishment for murderers), but I would point out that the evidence you cited made the case that people were being let off the hook unfairly (i.e., where others were not let off the hook) rather than that the wrong people were being executed. (Obviously, that happens too, and that would be the part of criminal justice that I would personally work on reforming.)</p>
<p>That said, I would be interested in whether you would choose (1) or (2).  I think that would help to focus the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Heath</title>
		<link>http://wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees/archives/252/comment-page-1#comment-6694</link>
		<dc:creator>Heath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Is there any way the willful killing of another can ever feel moral?  I think it's right we should grieve the use of the death penalty, it is a terrible thing.  The process we currently use is flawed, but I'm not sure the way execution is carried out will ever be comfortable, nor should it be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any way the willful killing of another can ever feel moral?  I think it&#8217;s right we should grieve the use of the death penalty, it is a terrible thing.  The process we currently use is flawed, but I&#8217;m not sure the way execution is carried out will ever be comfortable, nor should it be.</p>
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